Heres how Allah describes their punishment. More than a century after Jesus, in the reign of the Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius (d. 180 AD), we find that a part of the Thamud tribe was enrolled in the Roman army. 13. The Nabataeans were nomadic Arabs who moved into territory vacated by the Edomites Semites who settled the region centuries before them. Even if the prophet saw these exact structures which are visible today and we can, hypothetically, prove beyond a shadow of doubt that no one ever lived in them, and he took them to be the dwellings of the Thamud, that isnt a major problem. Anyway, whats really important is what led to their punishment. And 'Ad and Thamud (people)! [17], Thamud is mentioned twenty-three times in the Quran as part of a moralistic lesson about God's destruction of sinful nations, a central motif in the Quran. Good reply Adeel. Have you not considered how your Lord dealt with Aad; of Iram of the lofty pillars? (Quran 89:6-7). Again the burden of proof is on us that this was the case. But certainly, there is some potential that something like this may have happened. The Quran itself says that the dwellings of Thamud were khawiyatan during the time of the Qurans revelation. No doubt! - - * - Is Thamud mentioned in the Bible? It mentions the elusive city of Iram (mentioned in the above Quranic verse), and reads May Abdallhi son of Atmo be remembered for all time before Allt, the goddess of Iram.. 1. Source: Sahih Muslim 2980, Grade: Sahih. The Thamud (Arabic: , romanized:amd) were an ancient Arabian tribe or tribal confederation[1] that occupied the northwestern Arabian peninsula between the late-eighth century BCE, when they are attested in Assyrian sources, and the fifth century CE, when they served as Roman auxiliaries. You mentioned that there are many house-like structures in the valley today, so perhaps they are one of those. The fact that these structures are still around today, after nearly 4000 years is a testament to their quality and design. Shaitan (Satan) made their deeds fair-seeming to them, and turned them away from the (Right) Path, though they were intelligent. There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is His Messenger . Because were left with no records which can help in our archeological inquiry, even dating the structures becomes a difficult, and perhaps, an impossible task. The Prophet ()s custom was always to point out to his Companions the geographical locations and landmarks connected with previous Divine Envoys. [4] This entire passage has been sent by Sharif. This shouldnt be surprising as the Quraish, and in fact most faiths, do the same thing. The expedition of Tabuk does identify the dwellings and ruins of a destroyed nation of Thamud and this area is between Madeenah and Shaam/Syria. The word atharan or assar as loosely written in Urdu literally means effects or reactions or remnants left behind as an escape of a crime scene where clues or signs point to. For one, Allah certainly mentions that the Thamud were successors to the Aad. Let us know if you have suggestions to improve this article (requires login). Yusuf Ali. These include Sunni Huwala and Achomi people, who compromise of both fully Arab and mixed Arab-Persian families. It would be unsurprising then, to find them in the archaeological/literary records related to ancient Arabia. or, if he should, he can never take it, or take me from hence, conquer and subdue me. Salam. Under the Umayyad Caliphate, Arabic became the official language in Egypt rather than Coptic or Greek. We find ruins of so many past civilisations such as Indus Valley (Mohenjodaro, Harappa), Sodom, and so on. Edomites, Lihyanites and Nabateans inherited this skill? Before the destruction came to them, Hud and his small group of followers escaped the area and were spared the punishment. There is a popular historical show in Saudi Arabia with Eid Al-Yahya where they visit the area of Madain Saleh and he definitely makes a credible case showing that Madain Saleh has indications of being built by Thamud, but being used and completed by the Nabateans. When some one has a keen desire to understand logically or has questions, there is nothing wrong I think. Further confirmation of their service under the Romans, comes via a late 4th (or early 5th century) military document Notitia Dignitatum, which clealy mentions two cavalry units of Thamud, one serving in Egypt and the other in Palestine. Are you telling us to change our religion from our fathers relgion? Re. Here is how their argument goes: The Quran describes prophet called Salih ( ), who lived in the Thamud tribe. In my opinion this is an argument that Muslims have to tackle thoroughly due to its ease of presentation by non-Muslims and (hypothetical) explanatory power. JazakAllah, Thats fine I know that is just the way some people talk I talk to the point because Im using a mobile so I have to keep as short as possible my problem with the verse was normally when it says travel the land or as such its talking about nations close and the nations close to the Arabs were ad and thamud so some say that this verse is saying the quran thinks these buildings were built by thamud but we know they were built by the nabtions not thamud but we know the quran is not wrong so how do we explain that verse jazzakkallah because it makes it sound like that is this verse speaking in the present tense or past like tilka arabic and lam arabic jazzakkallah thanks for the help, Its like the same problem with 40:21 40:82 it sounds like thamud and pointing to these tombs etc but we know it cant be so how do we explain this as well jazzakkallah, And 27:52 because people say this sounds like it as well the kawatan arabic means empty so it sounds like it saying these tombs as well but it is mainly 28:58 I have the problem with jazzakkallah. Allah sent the Prophet Hud to give the Aad the message of Islam. And perhaps, over the generations, these people developed their own magnificent society with its own special hallmarks and characteristics. [Prophet], it is your Lord who is the Strong, the Mighty One. Thus, there was a latter 'Ad as well, whom some exegetes considered the people of Thamud. Why? He sent Prophet Hud (AS) to the Aad, and Prophet Salih (AS) to the Thamud. Having failed to save his people, Salih warned that they would be destroyed after three days. 2 See, I will make you small among the nations; Continue the discussion, Ok thanks so what does atharan mean in classical arabic or can it mean effects and results in classical arabic as well can it mean made as well as left jazzakkallah, And you said that there remains will show they once were better then you do you mean like if throw there might only be a few bricks left those bricks will still show they once were better because of the size of those bricks and how they were carved and the same with broken pillars even this they are broken the size of the circle shaped and the way they are cut they show that they were once supier and still are by the relics than you is that what you mean jazzakkallah by there relics show they once were better even there not that great now like old roman and egyptian bricks not standing but lieing down decaying but we can still tell they built better stuff like all I have to do is find one large bone of a dinosaur to know they are big that I dont need to find a lot of bones to know that is that what you mean jazzakkallah, I mean witch of these sound more like what the verses are saying 1. [29] The second Arab tribal migration to northern Mesopotamia was in the 10th century when the Banu Numayr migrated there. Do not enter the dwellings of those who wronged themselves unless you are weeping, lest you be afflicted with the likes of what afflicted them. I believe carving out structures in hills and mountains may have been a common practice within the ancient Arabia and its surroundings based on both the Biblical and Quranic accounts. 'Ad and Thamud are closely connected by both Islamic and pre-Islamic sources. Much of the lineage provided before Ma'ad relies on biblical genealogy, so questions persist concerning the accuracy of this segment of Adnanite Arab genealogy. Traditional Quranic commentaries assumed that they were a South Arabian people, but it turns out, they had their base in Wadi Ramm in present-day Jordan. But the Thamud were more nuanced in their rejection. Instead, they tried to engage Salih in debate. The Edomites and Thamud Moreover, they cultivated fertile land and gained lots of benefit from it. So Ad lives in a mountainous country with lush valleys; and they made altars on the mountains. Its not an easy read, especially as most of the stories leave the reader perplexed in terms of their relevancy to ones personal life or attainment of anything didactic that enriches or nurtures a relationship with God. The Quran on the Cerebrum: _ Qur'an and Science. So youd then say that the buildings at Madain Salih were indeed originally Thamudic and then after that built upon by other nations? The title People of al-Hijr was, therefore, that of Nabateans who came much late in history and their period overlapped with Thamud-II, the remnants of Thamud-I, the subject of Quran.[5]. _ Story of Aad _tafseer. By about 850 BCE, a complex network of settlements and camps was established. For the town in Yemen, see, sfn error: no target: CITEREFEph'al1984 (, "Al-Hijr Archaeological Site (Madin Slih)", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thamud&oldid=1132970365, This page was last edited on 11 January 2023, at 16:00. But they almost always have some other deities included in their pantheon. Satan made their actions seem good to them and so debarred them from the Way, even though they were intelligent people. They write new content and verify and edit content received from contributors. We have no concrete evidence that Nabateans were destroyed. The Aad before them were pretty decent architects and built some fairly magnificent castles. After all, camels were and still are pretty common in that part of the world. When Allah sent their brother Salih (AS) to advise them of the true faith, they rejected him just like the Aad had rejected Hud before. This is an article I recently wrote. The tribes of 'Ad and Thamud were ancient people who existed on the Arabian Peninsula many centuries ago and were recipients of the Prophets Hud and Salih, respectively. Assalam alikum forget the rest of what Ive put down but I was just wondering does 36:41 prove that every one on the earth comes from the people of tge ark if yes then how does that work because people could still see thamud dwellings so that means they could only come thousands of years of go but we know noah had to come near them but we know humans have been here at least 40 thousand bc so how do we explain this, Assalam alikum thanks for the answers but thamud had to be destroyed no lesser than 3000 bc not 800 bc jazzakallah because thamud came before Abraham jazzakallah but thanks, Also if the quran says the area is wadi al qura then madian al saleh is not wadi al qura jazzakallah but thanks, But of course in there empire day they would of probably built in wadi al qura and al ula and madian al saleh and else where in there area because they would of had a large population any where between 20 thousand to 50 thousand people because mekkah and median together came to 20-40 thousand people in the prophets day and 40:21 says these people were more in population so they had to be more than mekkah and median, Assalam alikum also dies 7:74 mean that Thamud were the descendents of ad or not or were they they descendents of ad jazzakallah. [12] The temple inscriptions (in Ancient Greek and Nabataean Aramaic) state that it was constructed by a priest named dt of the "Thamd of Robath" for lh, apparently the patron deity of the tribe, with the Roman government's support. Dont ignore them. They are mentioned in the Quran as examples of civilizations that Allah had destroyed because of their sins and as signs of the fleeting nature of the worldly power. This is the temple that was built by the tribal unit of Thamd, the leaders of their unit, so that it might be established by their hands and be their place of veneration forever with the support of Antistius Adventus, the governor. Missionaries and polemicists seize upon the error of this folklore as an alleged example of the error of the Quran, but in reality, this is not the case. The fact that he showed them the well of the she-camel and confirmed the area as geographically related to Thamd but made no comment on the tombs shows that he knew they were unrelated to any previous Prophet. Though you build your nest as high as the eagles, In sura 15, there seems to be a chronological order: At first the story of Adam (as) is mentioned (26-50), then the story of Abraham (as) and Lot (as) (51-77), then the story of the people of al-Rass,i.e. If we try to discuss the lineage of the Arabs well be here forever. Wadi al-Qura, refer to the article above. This generally means that despite very weak appearance now they one were very well established from the remanats. Their dwellings remained but very partially Although the Thamud probably originated in southern Arabia, a large group apparently moved northward at an early date, traditionally settling on the slopes of Mount Athlab. And indeed we do, but with an unexpected twist! The sentence, This structure is not only large enough and a couple more contained links. By declining the noun Thamud or not, it means the region or the tribe. Also two Saheeh reports are contradicting each other: One the one hand, they are resting at al Hijr, while on the other hand it is said that they didnt rest at all and kept riding away faster from Hijr. How do we explain 27:52 29:38 22:45 28:58 91:14, Assalam alie kum, it is a good attempt to answer the criticism of the of the people who have always found some crookedness to stand their point against Islam. See the video here (arabic): https://youtu.be/yjRjkjQ-VEA, Me however I lean towards that Madain Saleh is not the place for the Quranic Thamud like Dr Thiaeb (linguist of ancient arabic and archeologist) has been repeatedly saying at least since 1995, because among other reasons that Madain Saleh lacks all the marks of Gods wrath, the earth quake levelling Thamud etc. Summary: The cravings that Quran says were done by Thamud were in Wad l-Qura. . This is an odd conclusion. Compared to modern civilizations of this time that we live in, these were still archaic and that is just sign of the times but compared to those who came after them in the lands, these destroyed civilizations were e definitely stronger. You may look at any tafsir, these Ayaat are general and simply refer to destroyed civilisations which may be Indus Valley (Mohenjodaro, Harappa), Sodom, and Pompeii among many others. What do we know about the Nabateans? I believe neither are in error. The buildings of Thamud may or may not have remained but the well did exist then It is not specific to the 2 Arab tribes. Al-Arab al-Ba'ida (Arabic: ), "The Extinct Arabs", were an ancient group of tribes of prehistory that included the 'd, the Thamud, the Tasm, the Jadis, the Imlaq (who included branches of Banu al-Samayda), and others. Qur'anic accounts of Salih always follow those of Hud. [30], In the 12th century, the Arab Ja'alin tribe migrated into Nubia and Sudan and formerly occupied the country on both banks of the Nile from Khartoum to Abu Hamad. The first ancient tribe of Thamud should be distinguished from later tribes named Thamud by historians and archaeologists, as well as the region itself, which was known as the land of Thamud and sometimes simply Thamud.. But as is clear from the above discussion, Thamud were thriving as late as maybe the 4th century AD, while the people of Aad have left their final trails, only a few centuries before that. 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