<<<<<<<<<<<>. > not bothering, even, to use them correctly, the way that you are using > them> serves to obfuscate rather than clarify your meaning. at the >> ceremony/orgy.>, > Again, how is it 'clearly' the same voice?>. In fact, the only actual dream in the film is unseen, is onlylater described - namely, Alice's dream/nightmare about having sexwith numerous men (strikingly similar to the fate of the women atSomerton) in which Bill is openly humiliated, and told to Bill justafer he returns from Somerton. Crumb Eye. He wasn't positive. >In a big crowd of masked> people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is). The 'mystery' is how SHE knows that he is an interloper. And isn't this the mistake that many of the film's> critics made, reading Ziegler's story as 'ruining' the mystery,> desublimating the film's narrative by means of an all-neat-and-tidy> denouement? Tom Cruise in the Masked Ball ritual scene from Stanley Kubrick's masterpiece Eyes Wide Shut with Jocelyn Pook's haunting score filling the temple. Imay bewrong, but I think Kubrick intended it that way. First of all, Mandy must have felt some connection with Bill since he was showing her concern and kindness in the Bathroom. (4) With many people using Google maps-gps/satellite views scouring the earth, his Fortress of Solitude could be exposed. Clearly, of course,the Somerton ritual is a mirror of Ziegler's party (with each event inmany ways serving as the 'truth' of the other): whether its Mandy atthe party or at the ritual or at both, the outcome is still the same:a corpse in a morgue. If we try to go too far in figuring out the film we are left with many mysteries. I think this feeling of > guilt and outrage at a murder, would be the first thing on his mind. How manypayments of $19.99 was that, again?-- "History is a lie agreed upon." Bill is still even denying he knows what Zeigler > is talking about till Zeigler says "I was there at the house. You saw her volunteer to sacrifice herself so the orgy managers would let Doctor Cruise go free. Bill has not made any definitive connection at that stage between> Mandy and the masked woman, only - at most - between Mandy and the> Amanda from the news report, both of them having suffered drug> overdoses. If it was all a elaborate part of Bill's initiation into the order. Can it really compete with Rupert? > No, they aren't half whispered, they might be a little quiet but they aare > clear and she has a very distinctive voice. ---people with no idea of the futility and silliness of counting endless grains of sands, with their mental masturbations and perserverations. As though testing how well Bill's implanted suggestions had taken..????? (meaning > the Mysterious woman), ME"So..Victor the woman lying dead at the morgue was the> women at the party, well Victor, maybe i'm missing something > but what kind of Charade ends up with someone dead.". If the woman in the mask had been the same woman as Mandy, you would have expected some recognition of that from Doctor Cruise. From his meeting with Ziegler in the poolroom, it appears that Billhas been unclear about the identity of the woman in the morgue via-a-vis Mandy and the masked woman. Are we not acceptingZiegle'sr story here once again, and then retrospectivelyinterpellating and internalising it, re-interpreting all the earlierevents of the film in strict accordance with his frankly deeplysuspect account? He's eventually discovered and forced to remove his mask but is saved from a bleak fate by another masked woman who tried to warn him to leave earlier. It is only when Ziegler respondspositively to Bill's question, "The woman at the party is the woman inthe morgue?" For instance,it's fairly obvious from the start who the Mysterious Woman is. Somerton could hardly be >> >>>>>> described (and>, >> certainly not by Bill) as a 'party.'<<<<<<<<<<<. : I like the Ninth Gate alot and have watched it numerous times but it's quite. and> pleading with her to take off her mask? In keeping with the filmmaker's quest for perfection, the shoot for Eyes Wide Shut famously rolled on, with the movie holding the record for the longest consecutiveshoot, as filming began in late 1996 and wrapped in mid-1998. > certainly not by Bill) as a 'party. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, -- Dennis/Endyhttp://home.comcast.net/~endymion91/~I was born to rock the boat. The main point, was that that kind of mental approach to things, is actually the biggest impediment to focusing the mind. There are many aspects of it that ARE still a > mystery such as I was suggesting with the costume. He discovers an underground sexual group and attends one of their meetings -- and quickly discovers that he is in over his head. However, as we might imagine, there were many who believed his death was far from natural. Eyes Wide Shut: What The Mask On The Pillow Means, Every Stanley Kubrick Movie Ranked, Worst To Best, The Shining: Why Stanley Kubrick Changed Stephen King's Story, Why Pirates of the Caribbean Producer Wants Johnny Depp Back, Chris Pratt Joins Luigi Actor To Troll Super Mario Bros. Movie Voice Critics. Of course, Bill didn't 'know' - at least, not in any objective orcrystal-clear empirical sense. And you bring up anachoronistic Deleuze and Guattari? ", wrote:> In rec.arts.movies.past-films Harry Bailey . It's just idiotic. But I agree the way it is done is brilliant and it leaves all of us unsure of everything, opening up infinite possibilites as to what it all means. Which all suggests that Ziegler didn't actually know> about Bill's presence at Somerton until he removed his mask > <<<<<<<<<<<<. What a mish mash of mentalmasturbation that is..", " Psycho-semi-freudian-lacanisn-junkie-marxist babbling. Eyes Wide Shut is a 1999 erotic mystery psychological drama film directed, produced and co-written by Stanley Kubrick. >He also must have recognized> the voice, considering that her voice is somewhat deep and throaty with a> tinge of distinctive accent. Bill has not made any definitive connection at that stage betweenMandy and the masked woman, only - at most - between Mandy and theAmanda from the news report, both of them having suffered drugoverdoses. [Some irrelevant pseudo-Buddhist gibberish snipped]. >What else could he call it? It is also perhaps worth pointing out that the Somerton events, thoughso described in countless reviews and commentaries on the film - arenot accurately called an orgy, as that would imply that female, inaddition to male, sexual desire would find free expression at such anevent. One intriguing reading of the Eyes Wide Shut mask being on the pillow is that it's only in Bill's head as if he's exhausted by trying to hide his attempts at infidelity or true feelings from Alice, leading to an emotional breakdown. it is clearly the same voice as the "mysterious woman." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AzOnnrAlE8, http://www.celebsvideoarchive.com/videos/Julienne%20Davis/index.html, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvNO0BfBecc. because Bill didn't get to see him up close like the film audience. He did not know who she was: she was wearinga mask. When he gets to Somerton, they are all wearing the same kind of costume--Nick only tells him, they are "costumed and masked." He treated her as a not-very-important> patient; no Mandys attend Bill's upmarket surgery.>, Apparently word of Bill's entry into the ceremony/orgy traveled fast.>, > How? He could choose to call it many things, but 'party'? And isn't this the mistake that many of the film'scritics made, reading Ziegler's story as 'ruining' the mystery,desublimating the film's narrative by means of an all-neat-and-tidydenouement? Like much of the director's work like The Shining, movie fans love to debate the symbolism and meaning of Eyes Wide Shut. He stares down at her but that'sit, and Kubrick tryied in vain to tlel his stories visually so itshould be considerd from a visual perspective. Carolin Ruwe, in her book Symbols in Stanley Kubrick's Movie 'Eyes Wide Shut', argues that the mask is the prime symbol of the film. Was she the women at the party?" >Even in the morgue he still might not have been positive, but he replays >her voice in his head while looking over the body. I enjoy the > mystery entirely and will return to it over and over and could watch the > film again and again.>, >>>>>>>>>>>>> And if this firgure was Ziegler, why would he subsequently> send a naked masked woman over to Bill for his benefit? He didn't recognise her voice. I am still on the side of those who think SK left that scene of the reflection of the sound man holding the boom mike at his crotch, in the crome tub enclosure, on purpose, that the DVD edited out. On the other hand, he announcesthat what happened at that 'charade' was hugely, ominously important,so much so that the beating up of Nick Nightingale ("so he had abruise on his face that's a lot less than he deserved") and thedeath of 'Mandy' ("she was a junkie, she OD'd it happens all thetime end of story") was simply of no consequence by comparison. that Bill first makes this connection, or at least, hasit confirmed by someone else (Ziegler). The first several times I saw the film I though what the op thought. >>>>>>>> And even if it was clear, even if he hadreferred directly to the events of the night before as the (Somerton)party, it would still be uncertain, because, 1. WebChords for Backward Priests, normal version of Masked Ball Eyes wide shut with lyrics. I am normally the last guy in theworld to criticize somebody for using big words, but, besides that you'renot bothering, even, to use them correctly, the way that you are using themserves to obfuscate rather than clarify your meaning. at the > ceremony/orgy. What's going on?>> Wasn't the woman in the mask a lot skinnier than the ODd woman?? If we try > to go too far in figuring out the film we are left with many mysteries and > much conjecture. Again, is this not another case of'fantasmatic inflation', of imagining this figure to be Ziegler simplybecause of what we subsequently learn about him in the poolroom scene?And why should it matter WHO this figure is, beyond being a member ofthe power elite? And isn't this the mistake that many of the film'scritics made, reading Ziegler's story as 'ruining' the mystery,desublimating the film's narrative by means of an all-neat-and-tidydenouement? This is still a mystery. in fact if you look very closely, Mandy on the Slab, winks. S he was the same woman who overdosed at Victor Ziegler's party earlier in the movie. No, it was just set up that way, as a puzzle, so that there would beendless discussion. And wouldn't he really feel more at home in amore errrrrrrrr Gnostic setting? But which'party' is Bill referring to? >>>>>> But which 'party' is Bill referring to? You're coming across as yet another FUCKING TROLL!! But he still wasn't sure after reading the news story, or even aftervisiting the morgue, as his disbelief at Ziegler's explanationindicated. Orgy? for the morgue scene but it is still meant to be the same Mandy. (3) With the advent of cyberspace, and just simple disinterest many newspaper companies have gone under. While the final movie was greeted with somewhat mixed reviews at the time, the appreciation for Eyes Wide Shut has only grown since its 1999 debut. It was a > party nevertheless. Was she the women at the party?" > The way Zeigler confirms it was Mandy is matter of fact and it isn't as > though Bill seemed surprised at this--even if the audience might still be > confused.>, > 2. > > On Jan 11, 6:50 am, dumb_n00b wrote: > > This may indeed be the case, but within the diagetic space of the film. I think the voice would have rung a bell and > the Newspaper story rang a bell, with the name Amanda, and of course > seeing the corpse of someone who may have sacrificed her life for him--so > he was in shock. 0. If he wereZiegler, wouldn't he instead be going out of his way to privatelycommunicate with Bill, to get Bill out of Somerton as quickly aspossible in order to avoid any possible trouble (and as Zieglersubsequently admits, Bill's gate-crashing 'made me look like acomplete fool')? >In a big crowd of masked people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is), So why didn't Bill also recognise the identity of this masked figureon the basis of his eyes?<<<<<<<<<<<<. The 'mystery' is how SHE knows that he is an interloper. 20 years ago today, the final masterpiece from the late, great Stanley Kubrick arrived in theaters. ">> "I saw her body in the morgue. The woman who had tried to warn Bill intervenes and insists on redeeming him, at an undisclosed personal cost. The (unnamed) woman in the mask who warns Doctor Cruise is the same woman who ends up dead in the morgue. Simply because we don't really know the extent of the "charade," from the Illuminatii/Secret government etc, OR what SK really had in mind---to blow our mind. Bill is, after all, wearing a mask; not only that, butthe Mandy who was in Ziegler's bathroom the night before was 1. sodrugged out as to have been clearly incapable of making sense ofanything and 2. never actually spoke (just some unintelligiblemumbling), Ziegler doing all the talking and explaining. I agree though, he hadnt made a defintiive connection yet. but comparing the shot with all the the bathroom shots, eventually it is clear that it is Mandy. Regardless of the different actresses in the credits, what I see is that the woman at the ceremony, who redeems him, apparently the "mysterious woman," has a small freckle/mole on her chest about 2 inches to her left side of center, above her breasts, which I think, can also be seen slightly on the corpse. Ironically, that is just what power (and Ziegler)would want you to believe - that the world of power and power elitesdoesn't exist, is just all a charade anyway, that those who dorecognise the realities of social power and of desire are justparanoid conspiracy nutters (when in fact it is those whoattribute all that occurs in the film to 'a dream' who are beingproperly paranoid). I think it is clear he was referring to the Somerton party. Why would he demand that she take off> her mask if this were so? -- Steven L.Email: sdli@earthlinkNOSPAM.net, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB6g66OYoKI, "Steven L." wrote in message. I trhink Steven Lizberger is right. <<<<<<<<< we study it. Is that how youwould describe it? He had no reason to think Zeigler was at Somerton, till Zeigler tells him. Given that you have, as you already admitted, absolutely nounderstanding of the terms used or indeed the context in which theywere used, your pedantry is now exposed as pure and contemptiblefraudulence. Which all suggests that Ziegler didn't actually knowabout Bill's presence at Somerton until he removed his mask >> If we speculate too far then we could say it was ALL a Charade. I agree though, he hadnt made a defintiive connection yet. I always felt a hint of a suggestion, that Alice was someone at that Ceremony/orgy. >Bill was not yet sure it was Mandy from> the bathroom, till he happened to see the news story and saw the name> "Amanda," then it started to come together. -- Fred Brooks, I think I saw the "Rhizomatic" for sale on TV Late last night. >>He also must have recognized the voice, considering that her voice is >>somewhat deep and throaty with a tinge of distinctive accent. > the same time, being simple and concrete. When we see the naked corpse's face from the overhead shot, at first it's hard to tell if it's really Mandy's face, because of the expression and the angle, her combed back hair etc. Somerton could hardly be> >>>>>> described (and>> certainly not by Bill) as a 'party. Perhaps it> would have worked better if there had been a photo in the news> article. You have to cut it off at the root if you want to cure all that polar gibberish, ocd and those annoying fetishes I'm sure that plague you. Please either stop or> shape up. And if it's *not* supposed to be obvious, thatmeans that Polanski screwed up. Her pubic hair is trimmed just like Mandy's Pubic hair. :>released around the same time, The Ninth Gate. The vagueness is intentional, but I think it is clear that it was Mandy all along, although apparently there was a body double for some scenes. > Even Sk was not perfect in that way-----or was hethere is another > mystery. >>Even in the morgue he still might not have been positive, but he replays >>her voice in his head while looking over the body. >> First of all, Mandy must have felt some connection with Bill since he was> showing her concern and kindness in the Bathroom. At what point do we decide whether Corpse Mandy's very. >>>>>>>>>>>> And if this firgure was Ziegler, why would he subsequentlysend a naked masked woman over to Bill for his benefit? If he were> Ziegler, wouldn't he instead be going out of his way to privately> communicate with Bill, to get Bill out of Somerton as quickly as> possible in order to avoid any possible trouble (and as Ziegler> subsequently admits, Bill's gate-crashing 'made me look like a> complete fool')? No, they aren't half whispered, they might be a little quiet but they aare clear and she has a very distinctive voice. It is odd that Bill would remember his patient he hadn't seen in at least a year, owned "Rainbow Fashions?" >>In a big crowd of masked people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is)>, > So why didn't Bill also recognise the identity of this masked figure> on the basis of his eyes?<<<<<<<<<<<<, > This is simple. Is that how > you> would describe it? > slight, single frame, mini-wink and subsequent eye movement was intended? reinforced bythe simple observation that you have never actually posted here before[at least under your supplied handle/ID]. >> The vagueness is intentional, but I think it is clear that it was Mandy all> along. Why should we accept the 'reasoning' of someonewho Kubrick so openly portrays as a bullying, misogynistic thug (andalso, remember, there was no such character in Schnitzler's novel)?Alternatively, do the Somerton gang actually kill the masked woman atthe ritual, while the other woman (Mandy) at Ziegler's earlier partythen turns up - again as Mandy - at the morgue? What is interesting is that the film's very ambiguity concerning theidentities of the three women (Mandy, masked woman, woman in morgue),sets up a desire to 'fill in' all the film's narrative gaps anddeadlocks, a desire to shut down such uncertainty, to give - just likeZiegler - an easy, 'commonsensical' black and white 'explanation' ofevents. >on the balcony looking down> at Bill, knows that it is him and nodded to him. WebThe protagonists mask (Bill Harford, interpreted by Tom Cruise) is a Venetian mask that covers the entire face. Put on some headphones and listen. Are you suggesting that the people running Somerton would let thewomen there know that there was an interloper? The most obvious answer is Alice found the mask and left it out as a way to let Bill know she knew something was going on. What else could he call it? news:47897d0b$0$5129$4c36@roadrunner.com > Harry writes: (seen on google)>> >>> 1. so drugged out as to have been clearly incapable of making sense >> >>> of>>> anything and 2. never actually spoke (just some unintelligible >> mumbling),<<<>, >> No, she clearly says "sorry" to Zeigler when he says "you gave us a scare >> kiddo" and then Bill asks her, "How are you feeling now Mandy?" WebThe bodies of more completely nude masked women assail Bills voyeuristic eyes (and those of the audience). He is not exactly voicing his thoughts. He obtains the secret password to a clandestine masked ball, where he has a seductive encounter with a beautiful stranger. There are many, many readings of the story available, with the movie itself embracing a sort of dream/nightmare logic. "you are going to need some rehab," she says, >> "I know.">. > The vagueness is intentional, but I think it is clear that it was Mandy > all along, If it is vague, then how can it also be 'clear'? > People often don't make definitive connections between things at the > moment. That is what she was" implying that her deathis of no consequence because of the low-status manner in which Zieglerchooses to define her (an identity created and perpetuated by theZieglers of the world in the first place), earlier confirmed by hisdesire to get the drugged-out Mandy out of his bathroom and house("Can we put some clothes on her and get her out of here?" It's "clear," after studying the film after many viewing. And of course how did > the mask get on his pillow? It's profoundly, structurally, indeterminate >>> 1. so drugged out as to have been clearly incapable of making sense ofanything and 2. never actually spoke (just some unintelligiblemumbling),<<<. I recognized the voice of the > mysterious woman first time I saw the film.>>, >> it is clearly the same voice as the "mysterious woman." Lets look at the basic plot of this film. The (unnamed) woman in the mask who warns > Doctor Cruise is the same woman who ends up dead in the morgue. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. He only ultimately acceptsZiegler's account because itgives him a convenient alibi (as well as because of Ziegler's powerfulposition - Bill is Ziegler's man, obeying his orders, subscribing tothe demands and realities of Ziegler's world). > It's totally clear the "party' in this reference, is Somerton. This is Eyes Wide Shut revisited. > it is clearly the same voice as the "mysterious woman." Even Sk was not perfect in that way-----or was hethere is the mystery. So is Ziegler lying? In the bathroom scene, there is no way to tell if Mandy has that freckle, because of her slouched position, which also makes it hard to tell her height in relation to Bill. Let's get out of here.You're my witness. Same voice. OT. He treated her as a not-very-importantpatient; no Mandys attend Bill's upmarket surgery. And how does Bill know that a cape and a mask was appropriate attire? Rather, he> is beginning to SUSPECT that the body might be that of the masked> woman, a suspician that leads him to look long and hard at her up> close in the morgue. On Feb 26, 3:27 pm, "Avoid normal situations. It is also possible that for some reason Kubrick had to hire a different person to double for Mandy. WebSynopsis. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. Changes within the building seem to lack that phone booth sense of urgency and drama. WebEyes Wide Shut. He had no reason to think Zeigler was at Somerton, > till Zeigler tells him. --And men fancied he was dusted in gold. The Daily Planet may go under too. I am ready >What else could> he call it? There are many aspects of it that ARE still a mystery such as I was suggesting with the costume. You saw > her volunteer to sacrifice herself so the orgy managers would let Doctor > Cruise go free.>> If the woman in the mask had been the same woman as Mandy, you would have > expected some recognition of that from Doctor Cruise. Are you suggesting that the people running Somerton would let the> women there know that there was an interloper? It's pronounced Paw-rick, not Pad-raig. and she replies, "Better," and then when Bill says, "you are a very lucky girl," Mandy says, "I know." - Zieglerwasn't concerned about her health, just eager to get rid of her so asto avoid any potential social embarrassment, "Bill, this is justbetween us"). Congratulations. In a > case like that a pwerson would go through the various possibilities in his > mind, but he was kinda busy. When we see the news article about dead Mandy, it says "Beauty Queen"but how did Bill know that was the same woman who ODd or helped him atthe orgy, since he never knew the real name of either? Same voice. > > Similarly, when Bill reads the media report about an Amanda Curran> > suffering a drug overdose in a hotel, why does he immediately make a> > connection with his own recent experiences (and in a coffee shop/cafe> > that set-wise is actually the very same building that earlier served> > as Millich's Rainbow Fashions)? He's super modern too, so his favorite movies include Jaws, Die Hard, The Thing, Ghostbusters and Batman. It seems evident that Kubrick carefully selected the Rothschild-owned location and hand-picked the masks worn by participants of the ritual, echoing real-life families and events. Web1-48 of 339 results for "Eyes Wide Shut Mask" RESULTS Price and other details may vary based on product size and color. Eyes Wide Shut cast Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman as a married couple, with the former playing a doctor who goes on a strange, sexually charged journey one >>>>>>>>>>>And didn't Ziegler subsequently admit that the Somerton peopleonly learned of Bill's identity as a result of becoming suspicious ofhis manner of arrival and the costume-rental receipt in his coatpocket?<<<<<<<<<<<<<. Desire is always Other. andpleading with her to take off her mask? Somerton could hardly be >>>>>> described (andcertainly not by Bill) as a 'party.'<<<<<<<<<<<. Mon 14th Feb 2022 19.00 GMT. >>on the balcony looking down at Bill, knows that it is him and nodded to >>him. When Bill thinks hes just about to score his own sexual liaison, his charade is exposed. Please either stop orshape up. In Eyes Wide Shut, Abigail Good plays a `Mysterious Woman'. ", http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIXuHaaz5iU, > This may indeed be the case, but within the diagetic space of the film. WebEyes Wide Shut Mask Woman - Etsy Browse a wide selection of eyes wide shut mask woman and face coverings available in various fabrics and configurations, made by a The way Zeigler confirms it was Mandy is matter of fact and it isn't as though Bill seemed surprised at this--even if the audience might still be confused. Again, how is it 'clearly' the same voice? One intriguing reading of the Eyes Wide Shutmask being on the pillow is that it's only in Bill's head as if he's exhausted by trying to hide his attempts at infidelity or true feelings from Alice, leading to an emotional breakdown. Bill is ushered to a crowded room and unmasked by the master of ceremonies. > So if instead, he replayed Alice's voice (or Ziegler's voice) this> would 'prove' that the body was that of Alice (or Ziegler)? It would be odd for him to say, "orgy," or ritual, etc. After Dr. Bill Harford's wife, Alice, admits to having sexual fantasies about a man she met, Bill becomes obsessed with having a sexual encounter. - Ziegler> wasn't concerned about her health, just eager to get rid of her so as> to avoid any potential social embarrassment, "Bill, this is just> between us").>>> What is interesting is that the film's very ambiguity concerning the> identities of the three women (Mandy, masked woman, woman in morgue),> sets up a desire to 'fill in' all the film's narrative gaps and> deadlocks, a desire to shut down such uncertainty, to give - just like> Ziegler - an easy, 'commonsensical' black and white 'explanation' of> events. The point, however, is that even if all three female'characters' are the same woman (and so, effectively, the samecharacter), this serves to set up even more contradictions, not tomention buying in to Ziegler's warped, patriarchal world. 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Fucking TROLL! thing, Ghostbusters and Batman Ball, where he has seductive! That eyes wide shut who was the masked woman have never actually posted here before [ at least a year, owned `` Rainbow?... 'S totally clear the `` Mysterious woman. that, again? -- `` History is lie! > on the Slab, winks a lot skinnier than the odd woman?! Was far from natural first several times I saw the `` Mysterious woman ''... Clear that it is clearly the same woman who ends up dead in the mask warns... That she take off > her mask if this were so his favorite movies include Jaws Die! Dream/Nightmare logic Avoid normal situations you look very closely, Mandy must have felt some connection with since... Have worked better if there had been a photo in the mask who warns > Cruise. Undisclosed personal cost, winks for him to say, `` the woman the...? -- `` History is a 1999 erotic mystery psychological drama film directed produced. Are many, many readings of the audience ) this feeling of > guilt and at... 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