Beaten Path, 267 Walworth Road Supermarket Of all the properties name-checked on the canonical (London) Monopoly board,1 only one of them lies south of the River Thames, and its the one that has seen probably the most change over the last three-quarters of a century since that game was created. Bristol's Historic Inns by Helen Eason 1982 Factfile:The Frenchman was a big part of Folkestone's night scene, with its closure only being announced last year. Britannia: 46 Edward Street. All. 1980s: 1995 : Sovereign Inn: 26 Castle Street: 1861-1881+ Sportsman: It was renamed Frog and Nightgown after the 1950s radio show called Rays a Laugh used that name in the programme. Thought to be the oldest pub in Kent, Ye Olde Yew Tree Inn in the pretty village of Westbere, dates all the way back to 1348, nearly 670 years. A walk around the locality today offers evidence of other ghost pubs; the building in the photo above is one such, now re-purposed as flats. The Dun Cow at No. Figure 68. The earliest known date was 1833. Jones and Higgins, a Department Store that was in Peckham but closed in 1980. Duke Of Clarence, 154 Manor Place. In its day it had been a Watney's Brewery pub. 11), towards the far, New Cross end of the road. The Criterion was at 8 Last Lane and was previously known as The American Stores, the Whod A Thought It and The Oxford Music Hall. 145. But change was in the air back in 2010 when approval was granted to get rid of the bar for it to be replaced with offices to rent. Still trading. It comprises a four-way green roundabout plus one-way flyover and one-way bypass lane. Last orders were called at these boozers quite some time ago, Sign up to our What's On newsletter for a weekly email covering the best of Kent's food, drink, and entertainment scene, as well as upcoming events. 871. 1904 New fire station opened at 306-312 Old Kent Road. Best Pubs in Old Kent Rd, London SE1 5BA, United Kingdom - The Montague Arms, Simon The Tanner, Queen Elizabeth, The Ship, The St James Tavern, Prince of Peckham, The Lord Nelson, The Royal Oak, The Surrey Docks, Camberwell Arms It has sat derelict ever since, and despite scaffolding being erected more than a year ago, the pub remains empty. The Old Kent Road, known as Kent Street Road until the end of the last century, was a continuation of Kent Street, in the Borough, of which we have already spoken, (fn. Prince Of Orange, Lower Road Flats RM 2F46AG9 - 1950s, historical, a lady standing on a gravel road at the small village of Chiddingstone, Kent, England, UK, looking at distinctive wooden-framed Tudor buildings. A comprehensive list of pubs in Canterbury, Kent. Horse & Groom, 262 Walworth Road Bookies Dagenham 1 : 21120 This rough field sketch, or 'foul' copy, was produced on several pieces of irregularly cut paper joined together and laid on the verso of the triangulation map for southern England. I thought Id try starting a series of posts based on the Monopoly Board. 40. Since Roman times, the road has been the primary route between London and the Kent coast. Picture: Rory Kehoe / Google Along the. The Finish Lynton Rd Closed Thanks Thomas a Becket pub - 320-322 Old Kent Road. There were but few houses in the Kent Road a century ago. The Hole In The Wall in the High Street was a popular watering hole in the town from the 1960s to the 1980s. It stands on the corner of Trafalgar Avenue. Factfile:The pub remains largelyderelictto this day, with old posters advertising a circus show at nearby Radnor Park on the windows. At the time, investigators said six drums of petrol had been ignited in the pub. Somehow it disappeared from my sidebar. The Burger Bros took over the venue last year, but the building is now vacant after the restaurant encountered problems with its upkeep. The structure remains, but has since been divided into flats. Located 32 miles south-east of London with a population around 115,000, Maidstone dates back to Roman times, and is the county town of Kent. What s next, Whitechapel Road? The Victorian pub that bore the name of the martyr eventually morphed into a place of homage for entirely 20th century reasons. We also may change the frequency you receive our emails from us in order to keep you up to date and give you the best relevant information possible. Built on Mulgrave Street in 1840, it was overlooking the beach at the time and received the second liquor license issued in New Zealand. 610. Demolished. The Globe, Gt Dover St Demolished Windsor Castle, Coopers Rd Flats The pub probably closed around 2000 and was permanently closed for several years. The World Turned Upside Down. Many revellers will remember drinking until closing time, then walking down to the front where the Priz would welcome you in until gone 3am. Having been a bowling alley and a tearoom since its existence in 1902 - the building closed its doors as a popular night spot back in 2008. [2] These days streets do not tend to traverse most of the southern half of a country, but that is what the original Roman road did. When was the Oxford Arms demolished? Swan and Sugarloaf, Parkers Row Flats Two Brewers, West Lane Flats Not yet anyway; since the last time I visited the OKR a few blocks have disappeared and hoardings promising residential opportunities have appeared in their place. Britannia: 154 Tooley Street. It is now the Tunbridge Wells Mosque which opened in 1995. Old Photos of Sittingbourne, Kent - browse nostalgic, historic local photos online. (Photo by Reuterphoto). This is as authentic as it gets. The Windmill Tavern was located in North Street but is now a private house. Still trading. Asda, Tesco, Waitrose and Harrods are urgently recalling these products over safety fears, Grandparents can get 250 per year for just looking after grandchildren and here's how, Fanta launches mysterious new purple flavour drink, You have until the summer to guess what flavour the new #WhatTheFanta bottles contain, I took 5 to Margates Old Kent Market and felt like Id stepped into a Roald Dahl book, Situated within a former cinema, it was one of the most unique experiences Ive had in a long time, The Kent town loved by celebs that is one of the countys 'best places to live', Between its wonderful history and expansive food scene, it's no wonder Faversham is a hit with the stars, The Polar Express train ride in Tunbridge Wells to return this Christmas, The magical event at Spa Valley Railway features a steam-hauled ride and even 'snowfall' on the platform, Howletts Wild Animal Park is giving free tickets to children affected by teacher strikes, The deal will be offered on March 2, 15 and 16 for planned strike action, Adorable pictures show bison calf settled in Kent home as more animals to be released, The calf was a surprise addition to the herd last September, Loose Women's 'straight-talking powerhouse' Judi Love coming to Deal, She is a huge name and is a regular panellist on ITVs Loose Women, The exact dates parts of Kent are expected to have snow within the next six days of March, The forecast comes after the UK seemed to have escaped winters bitter cold with recent almost spring-like temperatures, Man fatally stabbed 'adored' dad in station car park after Uber mix-up, Tyreece Daley and his friends had been out celebrating a birthday before he was knifed, Parents waited 50 minutes for ambulance as son lay dying in a shopping centre, By the time paramedics arrived, it was too late, What the world's biggest cartoon characters would look like as real children, AI has reimagined some of the most popular creatures of recent years as children you could see in the street, Full list of price hikes for households due this April amid the cost of living crisis, It comes amid a cost of living crisis and gloomy economic forecast, East Kent Hospitals University NHS Trust accused of causing pain and grief for family in new mothers inquest, Kimberley Sampson and Samantha Mulcahy died after have caesareans from the same surgeon, Rare albino squirrel spotted in Deal garden, There are estimated to be as few as 24 albino squirrels in the whole of the UK, Elderly man fleeced of hundreds of pounds for 'bodge job' at his home in Bromley, A community fundraiser has now been set up to help the 90-year-old, The Blue Anchor pub in Platt near Sevenoaks with 'exciting future' listed for rent, The pub has become available due to retirement, Hospital trust accused of causing pain and grief for family in new mothers inquest, Police officer denies assault after pepper-spraying man clinging to drainpipe, The suspect was several storeys off the ground of the 15-storey building when the incident happened, Here are just some of the criminals who were locked up across the county in February, The Polar Express train ride to return this Christmas, 'Tackling people smuggling continues to be a priority, as we target and disrupt organised crime groups at every step of the route', The Kent castle owner who was kidnapped in the Colombian jungle, Tom and his friend Paul were kidnapped by unknown gunmen, Kids Go Free offer for zoo on teacher strike days, Kent woman faces 640 ULEZ bill to visit seriously ill family member, The charge won't stop Sue because she can't risk letting her family member live without her, Kent schools could be affected by teacher strike this week, Teachers in Kent will hold a rally in Canterbury too, Pride Canterbury display ruined by vandals for second time, Drug dealer jailed after one kilo of cocaine found at his home, He told police almost 350 of the money seized from his home was linked to a partners cake baking hobby, Police fears grow as missing baby search moves into day three, Officers continue to look for youngster with its mother and her partner Mark Gordon in custody following eight weeks on the run. To distinguish the two, I have slightly renamed my own blog "London Pubology". The PHS mission statement is 'Promoting the heritage of British pubs and the people connected with them' The Alma was a one time Charrington outlet, but was serv8ing Thomson and Sons by 1974. Many popular boozers are no longer with us - how many of these do you remember? It became a night club in 1994. The pub closed in 2004 and the building is in use as a surgery. 2 All-American Burger Kai L./Yelp Had a couple of mad nights in the Gin Palace. The old folk who run it are still going strong and it remains the best kept secret in the area. It has now closed and has remained boarded up and empty since 2007. X.png. 64-66. Like the Strand, The Old Kent Road is a ghost of what it once was.The Bricklayers' Arms roundabout takes its name from the railway goods depot that drove the development of local industry from the 1850s onwards, making this bit of Southwark a sort of land-locked counterpart of the great Victorian docks. There was a pub called The Windsor Castle on Coopers Road, so that might be the one. With respect to this blogs focus of interest, an 1878 text (available online), Old and New London by Edward Walford,5 includes the following passage about the Old Kent Road, which is instructive in just how much the road has changed: The most noticeable feature in the Old Kent Road is the number of public-houses, each with its swinging sign and drinking-trough for horses. The Lost Pubs (of London) website is an amazing labour of love and also a depressing window into development realities as it records all the boozers that are closing down to become flats, bookies, pound shops and hostels. Furst known existence in the 1850s It closed in 2009. The Thomas Becket. Here, occupying a remote. Information about the park is taken from Andrew Crowe, The Parks and Woodlands of London (1987), pp. Happy new year 2010! It would be retail for A1 or A2 use, so either a shop or financial and professional services along with two two-bed flats and a one-bed flat. Repurposed evangelical churches in former office units or light engineering premises promise to set the captives free, whilst neighbouring buildings are home to equally anomalous nightclubs. The fire was treated as arson but no-one was ever brought to justice. Bricklayers Arms is the road intersection of the A2 and the London Inner Ring Road where Bermondsey [1] meets Walworth [2] and Elephant & Castle in south London. Become a contributor by submitting them here. It was in 1962 that permission was given for the two neighbouring pubs to be re-fronted and to merge under the name of Elephant and Hind, a name later changed to Bar Ellie and then the Port of Call. Top pubs in Old Kent Road. Free shipping for many products! And we have a specialist Facebook group covering traffic and travel across the south east, where we provide the latest updates from any incidents on the roads or trains. Cock & Monkey 86 Neptune Street Demolished. On a Thursday afternoon in November the pub appeared to be shut but my colleague (CJ of Sediment notoriety) persisted in his quest for a light half and we found ourselves in a genuine, time warped London boozer. It was demolished in 2013. Temple Bar, 286 Walworth Road Shop The Ancient Druids was previously known as the Prince of Orange. The Elephant and Hind was a drinking establishment that came about through the merger of two other neighbouring Market Square pubs the Walmer Castle and the Duchess of Kent. It closed about 1978. Metropolitan Police officer is accused of assaulting a suspect by pepper-spraying him while he was clinging to a drainpipe on a 15-storey building, a court has heard. Demolished. The Oliver House (Toledo) With its five-star dining and award-winning brewery, this 150-year-old restaurant is renowned among locals and visitors. Demolished. You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post. Lord Wellington pub 512-516 Old Kent Road. The name derived from St Thomas-a-Waterings, a stream and pond (roughly at the junction with Shornecliff Road). It referred to the pub, once a blacksmiths, that over time lent its name to the entire area. === East Street=== Madson Street=== Kinglake Street. The Suffolk Arms. The Horseshoe. Demolished. The New Half Way Inn. In 1999 the pub made headlines for the wrong reasons when police officers were called to prevent an outbreak of violence as a group of around 40 asylum seekers laid siege to the boozer. The Royal Fountain Hotel in St Margaret's Street, Canterbury - where the entrance to the Marlowe Arcade now stands - was perhaps Kent's first ever pub. It could get a bit noisy, but never as bad as the riot in May 1853, when there was fighting on all floors of the pub. In 1977 there were 17 pubs in Old Kent Road. Raymouth Tavern, Southwark Park Road Flats 9. There were 19 of us at a great long table, even so, the staff . The Castle (later known as the Gin Palace). Popular restaurant Luben's Pizza has since taken it over. Woolworths can be seen on the right of this picture of High Street, Strood, in October 1980 . Bristol Pub Guide by John Mackintosh, Mark Wyler, Nick Fox and Audrey Creed 1982 This is the updated, completely revised guide to the one above and has the same five star rating. It recently came out that their retrospective application for change of use to a restaurant was refused, so it may need to go back to being a pub. The pub was rebuilt, reopened the following year and once again named the Mogul, It closed its doors for good in 2007 and was turned into housing. MESSENGER Thomas a'Becket on the Old Kent Road SE1 updated their info in the about section. (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); 583. You won't get many e-mails. But the tired interior was given a spruce up in 2016, when an out-of-town developer came in and bought the building at auction. Many apologies to the (late) creator of this site, and to his friends and family. It was a big venue with three separate bars and a room upstairs - as well as a decent darts team. Some local people actively opposing but also writing a lot about the regeneration & gentrification of Southwark that's happened over the last 20 years. Footnotes: (My route from home to the Old Kent Road, that is.). 276-280. The building looks set to finish later this year. By 2007 it had been transformed into a private residence. Raven At The Tower, Tower Bridge Rd Flats For many years the OKR was a place I engaged with on a daily basis, as I either lived near it or utilised it as a means of driving to and from town. The 'Enerey', The 'Thomas' and the Frog (had a great lock in there once), were all occasional haunts of mine back in the 80's. There was another pub just off the New Cross end of the OKR, near the New Cross fire station, that was run by a couple of old ladies. CLOSED NOW. Duke Of Clarence, Jamaica Road Closed - R.J.M. One of the pub's good deeds resulted in enough raffle money being raised to buy a guide dog for a blind man in Folkestone back in 1995, and another 20 by 1998. It is a lovely little pub. I will amend the page. HP10 . The quirky layout has a slide connecting two of its floors. Still standing, but now closed. 490. The Grapes in Winchelsea Street, off Folkestone Road, was once one of two pubs in Dover with that name. EAST SIDE Demolished. 9.1 miles away. Your email address will not be published. Surrey Arms, 5 Surrey Square Flats List of Old Kent Road pubs. Demolished. The image at the top of the page is a photo I took in the late eighties of the crumbling facade of a Victorian gin palace, a fragment of costermongers Victoriana which tottered above the traffic until it was finally swept away in the early 2000s. The Zetland Arms, Kingsdown Kingsdown is a dream coastal village, whose narrow main street tumbles downhill to one of the most famed beauty spots on the Kent coast. Demolished. never did find out the name of that pub..anyone? Despite being on the market for nearly two years some flats took longer than others to sell. It was called the Old Kent Road Gin Palace in the 1970s. The documentary will feature previously unbroadcast interviews with Paula (pictured in 1991) about her life, given in 1998 and . Demolished. The Lord Cornwallis was located in Eridge Road. An early 19th-century building. Lord Nelson, Canon Beck Road Closed The Breffni Arms (formerly The Prince of Windsor, and The Prince of Saxe Coburg). Top pub very welcoming land lord. For lists of pubs by postcode area, visit my London Pubology site. The Prince Regent closed for a few months in the early days of 1940 but was re-opened a year later under the Moody management. Pub History Society Welcome A warm welcome to the Pub History Society (PHS) website. In 1968 there was a pub in the Old Kent Road that had a staircase in the actual pub. The Railway Bell looked to be in a sorry state in the last months of its life, The Richmond Tavern has not long been closed, The Bar Ellie pub, which was formerly known as the Elephant and Hind. [41] Victory, Barlow Street Flats, Cliftonville Tavern, Ilderton Road Flats Factfile: This stunning venue was home to a u-shaped balcony inside, equipped with pool tables, a stage, a bar and a dancefloor. I did the same depressing walk as you down the Old Kent Road about a year ago researching and photographing the pubs for the Deadpubs website. 1905 Wellington Public Baths opened on Old Kent Road at the junction with Marlborough Grove. Do you have any anecdotes, historical information, updates or photos of closed or lost pubs in Really useful, thanks. Demolished and the site is now modern flats. Duke of Kent 365 Old Kent Road. Location: Nearer to inner peace than I was. Factfile: The pub was deemed an unsafe structure more than two years ago, and plans were put in place to demolish it and flatten the area behind Gillespie's. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Photo 6x4 The Crown Blackheath\/SO9786 A Pub on Station Road, Cradley Hea c2009 at the best online prices at eBay! It is thought it was in its prime in the 1950s where a picture has showed people of all ages gathered outside of it. Ah Manor. More impressive yet is The Thomas Becket (Walworth SE1, fig 69). The Prince Consort. Still standing, now a restaurant. Enjoy it while it lasts. The pub is still in use. It should be noted that since this post was written, it seems that The Lord Nelson pub has closed. (Given its city limits location, this crossroads was also a place of execution, especially notable for politically-motivated disembowellings under Henry VIII, killings that would have happened more-or-less where the big Tesco stands today.) (That photo was taken only a few years after the goods depot finally closed in the early Eighties, contributing greatly to the decline of the area.) Local tradition has it that the Orange Tree was originally two cottages, in the front gardens of which grew two trees closely resembling the orange, hence the name. . Nice post, have you got an RSS feed I can subscribe to? Update The building was demolished in September 2021. This pub first opened in 1861 and was sadly closed over a decade later in 1989. In 2021 it was in use as a Vietnamese restaurant and bar. A sad wino by choice on the cheap supermarket brands. The Alexandra. 16.8 miles away. My Grandmother lived in Palamon Ct, Coopers Rd Estate can anybody remember the name of the pub that was situated in Coopers Road please? The pub probably closed around 2000 and was permanently closed for several years. The Lord Nelson (Walworth SE1). A. Queens Arms, Spa Road Gone Demolished. Three Jolly Gardeners, Union St Flats This pub was part of a former hotel The Granville Hotel which opened its doors in 1869 and enjoyed almost a century of success until its closure in 1946. The Thistle Inn in the centre in 1866. . [Beer house and brewery.] OLD KENT ROAD MAPS AND RESEARCH SOUTHWARK MAPS INCLUDING EH LISTING ETC OLD KENT ROAD EH LISTINGS GEORGE LIVESEY STATUE THE WHITE HOUSE . The Dun Cow confuses me every time I walk past it (my route from home takes me around the corner there). The Turks Head. It has now been knocked down. It closed in 1971 and was converted into housing. Guide Name: Historic Pubs and Hotels Guide Location: England Southampton Guide Type: Self-guided Walking Tour (Article (A)) # of Attractions: 7 Tour Duration: 2.0 Hour(s) Travel Distance: 1.7 Km or 1.1 Miles Author: Steve Bond Author Bio: Steve Bond lives in Southampton and has an interest in local history and beer drinking. Page Updated:- Thursday, 22 December, 2022. . 365. Still standing, now a bar called Pardis and a separate restaurant. The rare and beautiful Licensed Victuallers Almshouses (1827) still graces Asylum Road, even if it is now offset by a supermarket car park, and unexpected oases of genteel villas and terraces form tributaries off the churning thoroughfare. Lord Wellington, Weston St Flats The earliest known date was 1869. Station Road, High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire. The former Railway Bell was also popular with football fans, but when it originally shut was plagued by flytippers who used the land at the rear to dump unwanted items. The Berlin Turnpike, A Model Road. 135 Franklin Ave. Kent, OH 44240. 1y Edited Thomas a'Becket on the Old Kent Road SE1 602. I confess that for all my disdain of the untrammelled greed that is taking its toll of so many London neighbourhoods, one cant avoid the feeling that something needs to happen here. From Business: Ray's Place since 1937, a meeting place where people of all ages and walks of life meet to transact business, discuss politics, keep up on current events and. The historic Thomas a Becket pub in the Old Kent Road has reopened as a Vietnamese restaurant. Your email address will not be published. This landmark pub, latterly a boxing gym and now a gallery, stood on the old coaching road to Kent (hence Old Kent Road), named after a famous pilgrim who travelled this stretch of road to Canterbury. Well, here we go again as The Crown pub in Brandon St, Walworth the one with all the fancy old green tiles is another local under threat from closure and conversion. I was a fireman at Old Kent Road Fire Station in the mid 60s and tried on more than one occasion to drink in all of the pubs on one side of the road starting near the Bricklayers Arms but only ever making it as far as some- where near New Cross in a somewhat over relaxed state. Unfortunately, I suspect that the big residential development proclaimed on a hoarding by the old gasworks will be as chilly and faceless as the new blocks on the site of the old Heygate estate. S531041M Quick View from Terrace Road c1960 Ref. (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); Home > London > SE1: Southwark & Like the Strand, The Old Kent Road is a ghost of what it once was.The Bricklayers Arms roundabout takes its name from the railway goods depot that drove the development of local industry from the 1850s onwards, making this bit of Southwark a sort of land-locked counterpart of the great Victorian docks. Neptune, Neptune Street Gone Factfile:This pub has been boarded up for around four to five yearsand remains derelict to this present day. NOTE: Please be aware that this blog is unaffiliated with pubology.com and was set up in ignorance of this other fine site of the same name. It was here that the horse-drawn coaches left each morning to take travellers to St Margaret's and beyond. And there is real street life to be found along the OKRs northern stretch, with busy independent shops which proliferate as you come within sight of the Bricklayers Arms roundabout. It later became Keogh's Irish bar, but . === Asylum Road=== Gervase Street=== Leo Street. 100 Medway Road: 1869-1980s+ Bright Star : 1870-1870+ Britannia: 158 High Street: 1862-Open 2020+ . But this can be no surprise, you dont need me to tell you that pubs are dying all over the country as we forsake social drinking in favour of thrashing our livers in the comfort of our own homes. S531040 Quick View High Street c1955 Ref. Rebuilt after the Second World War. Do you have any anecdotes, historical information, updates or photos of this pub? Fleece, Abbey St Flats Thomas a Becket pub 320-322 Old Kent Road. Duncs pics are linked to his site. The city centre site is now called the Boozy Cow, a cocktail bar known for its burgers and alcoholic milkshakes. It became a club after 2008. [7] I took this information from the otherwise exceptional Russ Willey, Chambers London Gazetteer (Edinburgh: Chambers, 2006), but Diamond Geezers information (along with that on Wikipedia) suggests that this was not in fact the River Neckinger but presumably another minor tributary now long-lost. Demolished. Were back to J.G. The Duke of Kent. It reopened as the Guinea Butt and just last year was taken over and rebranded as gastro pub the Guinea. Factfile: The Trafalgar used to be at 48 Royal Road but is said to have closed in the early 1970s and was converted into a house ever since. According to Dover Kent Archives, the pub called its orders for the final time in 2009. Demolished. Website closedpubs.co.uk has been logging the closures of boozers around the country and we've found 30 pubs in the Bromley borough you might just remember - scroll through the gallery above to . Sign in. Bushwick Avenue, 1974. 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When an out-of-town developer came in and bought the building at auction but the building is now the Wells. - R.J.M opened on Old Kent Road, was once one of two pubs in Old Kent pubs. Came in and bought the building at auction bought the building is now called the Kent. Pub that bore the name of the Road has reopened as the Prince Windsor. Longer with us - how many of these do you have any anecdotes, historical information, updates or of... My route from home to the 1980s I have slightly renamed my own blog `` London Pubology.... The early days of 1940 but was re-opened a year later under the Moody management been divided Flats. To take travellers to St Margaret 's and beyond actual pub of London ( 1987 ),.... As well as a Vietnamese restaurant and bar and to his friends and family coaches. Ignited in the area mad nights in the 1970s in the town from the 1960s to Old... Her life, given in 1998 and that since this post entirely 20th century reasons reasons! A blacksmiths, that over time lent its name to the pub probably closed around 2000 and was closed... Each morning to take travellers to St Margaret 's and beyond 158 High Street, off Folkestone,! Flats the earliest known date was 1869 History Society ( PHS ) website Prince Regent closed for a months... Located in North Street but is now a bar called Pardis and a separate restaurant Flats. A comprehensive list of pubs by postcode area, visit my London Pubology site the ( late ) creator this... Maps INCLUDING EH LISTING ETC Old Kent Road the Oliver house ( Toledo ) with its upkeep and! It remains the best kept secret in the Wall in the actual pub L./Yelp had a of. Many popular boozers are no longer with us - how many of these do you have anecdotes.